From ???@0x000002F9 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 5 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: dominik500@aol.com (Dominik500) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 01 Mar 2002 06:51:33 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594269 Status: O Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack there of) Any other comments? Dominik From ???@0x00000631 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!news.stealth.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news.olagrande.net!not-for-mail From: griffith@olagrande.net (Jim Griffith) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:17:41 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Ola Grande Networks, Inc. (www.olagrande.net) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: og1.olagrande.net X-Trace: og1.olagrande.net 1014967061 20536 63.98.209.2 (1 Mar 2002 07:17:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@olagrande.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:17:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: griffith@olagrande.net (Jim Griffith) Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594277 Status: O In article <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com>, Dominik500 wrote: >Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >there of) Any other comments? Yeah. I think you were watching the wrong channel. Jim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Griffith /--OO--\ | Two great powers are on our side: the power of griffith@olagrande.net | Love and the power of Arithmetic. These two are BEWARE BATS WITHOUT NOSES! | stronger than anything else in the world. From ???@0x000007B9 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: M. V.L. M. Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Reply-To: m_v_l_m@yahoo.com Message-ID: <3c7f34b0.18204227@news.prodigy.net> References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.253.18.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com 1014969411 ST000 63.253.18.83 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:56:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:56:51 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: [[OQBXCEQZUOB[M]]CBXMEPE@CTZB\XIDY^LLRMIWIWZEPYAFNS[QCW[RL\DXUGIANEYZEFNNFZ^_KSC[NVMOSDGKFWEXR@KO@ZJSWWBB\TTPLL_OSG\H][CODFOKCJL@DXG[ORM\Q^GVLSRED^K_OW_MCZFGR_HZY_I@A_B\K@BP\PE_TAZ]VDGWVWCP]JM Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:56:51 GMT Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594282 Status: O griffith@olagrande.net (Jim Griffith) wrote: >In article <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com>, >Dominik500 wrote: >>Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >>characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >>there of) Any other comments? > >Yeah. I think you were watching the wrong channel. > I liked it. Her frizzy-haired friend is probably my favorite. She does 'Frasier's "Roz" even better than Peri Gilpin does. -- Michelle ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ m_v_l_m@yahoo.com Name that tune! "...How sometimes life can be so unpredictable and if they had to do it all again..." From ???@0x00000502 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!nntp0.pdx.net!not-for-mail From: "m. Halbrook" Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:30:26 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Your Company Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sub18-248.member.dsl-only.net X-Trace: opus.pdx.net 1014985826 26883 63.105.18.248 (1 Mar 2002 12:30:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.pdx.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:30:26 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/L5 Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594299 Status: O dominik500@aol.com (Dominik500) wrote in news:20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com: > Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and > unlikeable characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall > unpleasant plot (or lack there of) Any other comments? > > Dominik It's got more potential than any of the other comedies NBC's put out with the exception of Scrubs. Of course I liked Inside Schwartz, Emirl and The Fighting Fitzgeralds too. From ???@0x00000854 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 01 Mar 2002 13:17:44 GMT References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594307 Status: O dominik500@aol.com said: >Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >there of) Any other comments? i'm just gonna guess that we weren't watching the same show. i didn't see anything particularly smarmy or unlikeable about any of the characters. unless you're offended by casual sex, i can't find anything particularly wrong with them other than them just not being very well written this first time out. i was under the impression that the friends were going to be more equal with faith taking on the carrie bradshaw role of the group. but, they didn't really introduce us to ken or regina's characters at all. i can't fault any of the actors, though...they all did a fine job with what they were given. it wasn't the best show i've ever seen, but it shows a lot of promise. as always, it was a pilot, so i cut them some slack. besides that, it's structural similarities to "sex and the city" (and the fact that they've been beating it into viewers' heads that jenny bicks is the woman behind it) distracted me a bit as i sat there deciding who was who. but, now that i've gotten that out of my system if they can make some small improvements, i'll really like this show. whatever happens, it's certainly not worse than "inside swartz". it might be the best post-"friends" show they've given us yet. amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x0000066D Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: twc6@aol.com.org (Twc6) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 01 Mar 2002 17:23:52 GMT References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594369 Status: O <> Yeah, it's the first new NBC sitcom in a long time that I actually WANT to watch again. There are certain things about it that are a little forced, such as the group of friends is obivously a Sex in the City thing, though they are obviously trying to downplay that, which it more obvious -- "okay, it's like the Sex and the City group, but one is black, one's a straight guy and they are all more quirky." The shocking thing is that the actor playing the new romantic interest is actually interesting as an actor! Can't believe it! From ???@0x00000695 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 From: ws21@cornell.edu (Bill Steele) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:12:42 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 15 Sender: ws21@cornell.invalid (on 128.253.187.23) Message-ID: References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.253.187.23 X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1015009963 11361 128.253.187.23 (1 Mar 2002 19:12:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Mar 2002 19:12:43 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!torn!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!ws21 Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594407 Status: O In article <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com>, twc6@aol.com.org (Twc6) wrote: > There are certain things about it that are a little forced, such > as the group of friends is obivously a Sex in the City thing, though they are > obviously trying to downplay that, which it more obvious -- "okay, it's like > the Sex and the City group, but one is black, one's a straight guy and they are > all more quirky." Theory: in order to sell it to NBC, they had to pitch it as being "like Sex and the City," and deliberately make the pilot in that mold. Now that it's on, hopefully they can take a different direction. The show is, after all, called "Leap of Faith" and not "More Sex in the Same City," so I expect more concentration on the central character than in SatC. From ???@0x00000D5D Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!sympatico Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv From: I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 62 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:32:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.107.209 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1015014547 142.177.107.209 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:29:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:29:07 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594426 Status: O Dominik500 wrote: (Disclaimer: I don't watch much TV. But I had several reasons to tune this one in.) >Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Didn't see it, so I can't say. >Smarmy and unlikeable characters, I'll buy that one. Some of the actors handled things well, but the characters were just... eugh. Only Faith really didn't grate against me (though Paulson doesn't strike me as the perfect choice of actress - too young-looking to be entirely believeable as someone running behind on her life-schedule - Paulson's not far off of the age where some actors play teenagers). My big problem with the environment was how misogynistic it felt. The women at the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - way to perpetuate the stereotype that a woman can be distracted from anything, even a marriage collapsing in front of her, by simply invoking the image of something cute). Faith must've had a helluva childhood with a mom and sister like that. >REALLY REALLY lame jokes, Pretty much all of 'em fell flat, didn't they? I was grateful for the lack of a laugh track - I dislike being told what's funny when I don't think it is. >and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack there of) Plot was a cookiecutter pilot thing, obvious start/middle/end even if you didn't know the setup. Fiance is set up to be grating from the first scene he was in, so when the Hunky Actor Guy comes along you can sit back and watch the dominoes fall. But the sub-sub-plot that seemed to do nothing but assert that Faith's male pal wasn't gay struck me as fighting against the obvious assumption a little *too* heavily. >Any other comments? About as mean-spirited and aggravating as most of the sitcoms I've seen. While this is not a horrible sin no one's ever committed before - it has a long and venerable(?) tradition - it's not the greatest foot to get started on. At a guess, you don't like Sex and the City. I get the feeling that there's an overlap between the targetted fanbases and therefore a similar overlap between people who dislike them. I don't like either, obviously. Though, I admit, I had a far better reaction to LoF than SatC. I managed to make it through LoF without turning off the TV (even if I'm not turning it back on again). So they're doing something right, at least. Len -- Pointless sig file. http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail. End pointless sig file. From ???@0x000007F0 Thu Mar 07 00:02:00 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 36 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 01 Mar 2002 20:48:41 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594430 Status: O I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com said: >My big problem with the environment was how misogynistic it felt. other than what you posted here, what did you find misogynistic? >The women at >the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - > >way to perpetuate the stereotype as if women like that don't exist. i can't count the number of showers i've been to that were full of those exact women. >But the sub-sub-plot that seemed to do nothing but assert that Faith's male >pal wasn't gay struck me as fighting against the obvious assumption a little >*too* heavily. it wasn't that obvious since i never assumed he was gay. i am annoyed, however, by the fact that all i know about him is what i read in a review in one of the weekly entertainment mags. if i'd gone into this show with no knowledge of it at all, i'd have no idea what his deal was. i still wouldn't have made any natural assumption that he was gay, though. >About as mean-spirited and aggravating as most of the sitcoms I've seen. what was mean spirited, exactly? by the way...what exactly was your reason for tuning into this in the first place? amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x0000051D Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news2.telusplanet.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <3c7fe701.51890201@news.edmonton.telusplanet.net> References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 17 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:33:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.184.232.236 X-Trace: news2.telusplanet.net 1015018414 161.184.232.236 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:33:34 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:33:34 MST Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594445 Status: O On 01 Mar 2002 20:48:41 GMT, amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) wrote: >>About as mean-spirited and aggravating as most of the sitcoms I've seen. > >what was mean spirited, exactly? > >by the way...what exactly was your reason for tuning into this in the first >place? > I watched it because it was half an hour long. Maybe he did, as well. Personally I didn't find it very funny, but I was far from sure that it was supposed to be very funny in the first place. From ???@0x000003E9 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 01 Mar 2002 21:50:57 GMT References: <3c7fe701.51890201@news.edmonton.telusplanet.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301165057.15050.00001105@mb-bk.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594449 Status: O rgorman@telusplanet.net said: >I watched it because it was half an hour long. Maybe he did, as well. i was asking specifically because he/she stated at the beginning of the post that there were reasons for watching it, yet never mentioned what those reasons were. amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x0000130F Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!sympatico Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv From: I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 91 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:29:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.87.11 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1015025159 142.177.87.11 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:25:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:25:59 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594476 Status: O AMYSA wrote: >I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com said: > >>My big problem with the environment was how misogynistic it felt. > >other than what you posted here, what did you find misogynistic? Edelstein's character (Patty?) not knowing "Coffee Guy's" real name, despite both having sex with him/talking to him for hours nightly. It was a stretch for one joke, and IMHO took her character out of the realm of someone who enjoys casual sex and into the area where the word "tramp" applies. It's also more caricature than character. If they passed this show off as light drama, they might not need to resort to that sort of level of humor, where the characters suffer for the joke. Unless they *want* the character to be like that, of course, which is part of a bigger problem. >>The women at >>the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >>self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - >> >>way to perpetuate the stereotype > >as if women like that don't exist. Oh, they do, certainly, and I do my darnested to try avoid them. But there was such a... *uniformity* about it. The Stepford wedding party. Made worse by the quick and jarring string of cuts involving Patty in that scene, which just shook up my suspension of disbelief. >i can't count the number of showers i've >been to that were full of those exact women. Shame, that. I've never been to one, but I've heard of some good ones. >>But the sub-sub-plot that seemed to do nothing but assert that Faith's male >>pal wasn't gay struck me as fighting against the obvious assumption a little >>*too* heavily. > >it wasn't that obvious since i never assumed he was gay. I personally didn't care either way. Several reporters did, though, which must influence at least some of the audience. I've read at least one rundown - long story, but I've been keeping an eye on this show since August - which was of the sort "One guy hanging around with a bunch of women, he must be gay!" Just the first scene struck me as a reply to that sort of criticism. The criticism wasn't fair but the subplot just seemed to be left sitting there as some response, since it served no other real purpose. Let me phrase it another way: Removing his subplot moments - which were really variations on the same joke - what did he have? About one scene, where he talks to Faith about her fiance. It was one of the better scenes of the show but even then it got bookended in his subplot. Could be a coincidence. But they've filmed two pilots, presumably the same script twice. No room for punching-up in the four(ish) months in between? >i am annoyed, however, by the fact that all i know about him is what i read in >a review in one of the weekly entertainment mags. if i'd gone into this show >with no knowledge of it at all, i'd have no idea what his deal was. Well, both he and Regina King were short-changed in setting up the pilot plot. Since they don't work at the ad agency, all their scenes will have to be outside of that. Patty, on the other hand, is convenient, so she got coverage second only to Faith. >>About as mean-spirited and aggravating as most of the sitcoms I've seen. > >what was mean spirited, exactly? General feeling. Made worse every time the fiance was onscreen, since he was both dislikeable and also clearly written as such (it's that "written as such" that got me). Maybe I'm just too fond of light escapism in my television programming, not something I've seen much of since... hmm... the 90's. >by the way...what exactly was your reason for tuning into this in the first >place? Long story made short - I mentioned in a public forum that I intended to watch at least the pilot. And I dislike going back on such a statement unless I have to. Len -- Pointless sig file. http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail. End pointless sig file. From ???@0x000003E4 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 8 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: twc6@aol.com.org (Twc6) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 02 Mar 2002 00:11:10 GMT References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594485 Status: O <<>The women at >the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - > >way to perpetuate the stereotype>> This bothered me too -- why would Faith have these people to her party? They obviously weren't people she was FRIENDS with. From ???@0x000009A0 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!uunet!osa.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news.olagrande.net!not-for-mail From: griffith@olagrande.net (Jim Griffith) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Ola Grande Networks, Inc. (www.olagrande.net) Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: og1.olagrande.net X-Trace: og1.olagrande.net 1015029578 7850 63.98.209.2 (2 Mar 2002 00:39:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@olagrande.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:39:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: griffith@olagrande.net (Jim Griffith) Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594491 Status: O In article <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com>, Twc6 wrote: ><<>The women at >>the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >>self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - >> >>way to perpetuate the stereotype>> > >This bothered me too -- why would Faith have these people to her party? They >obviously weren't people she was FRIENDS with. This didn't bother me a bit, and I suspect you two are thinking like guys. First off, it's highly doubtful that Faith organized the party herself, as you never throw yourself a bridal shower. Second, it seemed clear that Faith's mother is being portrayed as a New York socialite (as is Faith's sister), while Faith is being portrayed as decidedly uninterested in the socialite scene. That explains the New York Times reference. It seemed obvious to me that Faith's mother organized the shower in traditional socialite style and that Faith was more or less forced to endure it, when she'd rather have gone off and gotten rowdy with her two or three close "normal" friends. Jim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Griffith /--OO--\ | Two great powers are on our side: the power of griffith@olagrande.net | Love and the power of Arithmetic. These two are BEWARE BATS WITHOUT NOSES! | stronger than anything else in the world. From ???@0x00000537 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!torn!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news2.telusplanet.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <3c80159e.63824646@news.edmonton.telusplanet.net> References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 15 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:52:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.184.233.166 X-Trace: news2.telusplanet.net 1015030321 161.184.233.166 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:52:01 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:52:01 MST Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594494 Status: O On 02 Mar 2002 00:11:10 GMT, twc6@aol.com.org (Twc6) wrote: ><<>The women at >>the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >>self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - >> >>way to perpetuate the stereotype>> > >This bothered me too -- why would Faith have these people to her party? They >obviously weren't people she was FRIENDS with. It wasn't Faith's party. It was her bridal shower, and the bride doesn't pick who comes to the shower. The organiser does. From ???@0x000002F5 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nnxp1.twtelecom.net!news-east.rr.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 2 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: snostormdansr@aol.com (Snostormdansr) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 02 Mar 2002 01:12:28 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301201228.15034.00001201@mb-bk.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594502 Status: O Yes, a bad rip-off of SATC/Friends, but I may give it one more try, only because it doesn't have a laugh track. From ???@0x0000064B Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 22 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: corwin2@aol.comamber (Corwin2) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 02 Mar 2002 03:01:06 GMT References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cv) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020301220106.03239.00000180@mb-cv.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594529 Status: O >Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >there of) Any other comments? A PG version of Sex in the City. I thought the setup/pilot was very likeable but I think the pilot will be the best episode of the series. (With not quite a big a gap as there was between the pilot and the regular episode of Dharma & Greg, however.) I also don't think a PG version of Sex in the City is sustainable, but we'll see. BTW, NBC may be re-running it (and Watching Ellie) Sunday?? night after Law & Order: Criminal Intent. (Or it may have switched gears and run Dateline.) This is not a recommendation of Watching Ellie. I started watching the timer and telling myself it was only another 9 minutes. Only another 6 minutes. Only another 3 minutes. I'm not likely to be watching Ellie again. (J) From ???@0x00000B04 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!sympatico Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv From: I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 49 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 03:01:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.92.140 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1015037927 142.177.92.140 (Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:58:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:58:47 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594528 Status: O Jim Griffith wrote: >In article <20020301191110.16955.00001486@mb-dd.aol.com>, >Twc6 wrote: >><<>The women at >>>the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as >>>self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - >>> >>>way to perpetuate the stereotype>> >> >>This bothered me too -- why would Faith have these people to her party? They >>obviously weren't people she was FRIENDS with. > >This didn't bother me a bit, and I suspect you two are thinking like guys. Thank you. >First off, it's highly doubtful that Faith organized the party herself, as >you never throw yourself a bridal shower. But then, you don't try to do something like this at the expense of a family member. Unless... (see below). >Second, it seemed clear that >Faith's mother is being portrayed as a New York socialite (as is Faith's >sister), while Faith is being portrayed as decidedly uninterested in the >socialite scene. That explains the New York Times reference. It seemed >obvious to me that Faith's mother organized the shower in traditional >socialite style (Snip) Ah, a "socialite". As in, the kind of woman prone to inviting her own "friends" almost exclusively to the sort of thing that shouldn't include more than one or two at the most? Kind of woman who'd do nothing but gossip about the quality of the gifts once their givers have left? Kind of woman who sees blood ties as something to be exploited? That's part of the reason I do so like the word "estranged" when speaking of a family tree in desperate need of pruning. It either finalizes things or it makes it obvious to the person that things will be final if they don't shape up. Of course, then you wouldn't have a TV show. Len -- Pointless sig file. http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail. End pointless sig file. From ???@0x00001593 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: carmenlee23@yahoo.com (Jule) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: 1 Mar 2002 20:48:11 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 90 Message-ID: References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.210.210.161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1015044492 1519 127.0.0.1 (2 Mar 2002 04:48:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Mar 2002 04:48:12 GMT Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594547 Status: O I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) wrote in message news:... > AMYSA wrote: > >I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com said: > > > >>My big problem with the environment was how misogynistic it felt. > > > >other than what you posted here, what did you find misogynistic? > > Edelstein's character (Patty?) not knowing "Coffee Guy's" real name, despite > both having sex with him/talking to him for hours nightly. It was a stretch > for one joke, and IMHO took her character out of the realm of someone who > enjoys casual sex and into the area where the word "tramp" applies. It's also > more caricature than character. Yeah, that was a bit heavy-handed. Maybe the half-hour format makes them have to characterize at a speedier pace, or something. But I didn't buy it, and I agree that the actors all did a good job with what they were given. It's not a good sign when you're watching a show and you get the impression that reading the script must have been a bit of an eye-roller for the actors. > > If they passed this show off as light drama, they might not need to resort to > that sort of level of humor, where the characters suffer for the joke. Unless > they *want* the character to be like that, of course, which is part of a > bigger problem. > > >>The women at > >>the bridal shower (save Faith and her two pals) were all portrayed as > >>self-important/manipulative (Faith's family) or morons (the "Awwww!" chorus - > >> > >>way to perpetuate the stereotype > > > >as if women like that don't exist. > > Oh, they do, certainly, and I do my darnested to try avoid them. Yep, the pastel blue headband and matching cardigan of Faith's sister were a dead giveaway. :) She's what Bridget Jones would have called a Smug Married. But I guess that's another case of the misogyny. One character's a tramp, the other is a Stepford wife. Combined with the crappy writing, the show wasn't all that fun to watch. > > But there was such a... *uniformity* about it. The Stepford wedding party. > Made worse by the quick and jarring string of cuts involving Patty in that > scene, which just shook up my suspension of disbelief. > > >i can't count the number of showers i've > >been to that were full of those exact women. > > Shame, that. I've never been to one, but I've heard of some good ones. Gosh, those parties must have been scary. I did like it when Faith said she'd slept wtih someone else and told everyone to take their gifts back. Someone in the foreground did just that, and Faith saw it and made this little "well, there ya go" hand gesture. And I liked the Kruschev line, too. I've heard the "I think you're jealous" line before from smarmy women armed with occupied Snuglis and I wanted to hurl. Wish I'd thought of that retort. :) I HATE when women are b*tchy to women. But I won't get started on that can o' worms. :) > > >>But the sub-sub-plot that seemed to do nothing but assert that Faith's male > >>pal wasn't gay struck me as fighting against the obvious assumption a little > >>*too* heavily. > > > >it wasn't that obvious since i never assumed he was gay. > > I personally didn't care either way. Several reporters did, though, which must > influence at least some of the audience. I've read at least one rundown - long > story, but I've been keeping an eye on this show since August - which was of > the sort "One guy hanging around with a bunch of women, he must be gay!" Just > the first scene struck me as a reply to that sort of criticism. The criticism > wasn't fair but the subplot just seemed to be left sitting there as some > response, since it served no other real purpose. Well, he was all jerkazoid and kept waving at women like he had something to prove. Eh. Whatever. I didn't like it very much. My main beef was the bad and shallow writing and the attempts at humor, the slapping the slut label on Patty, the strangely cruel mom (the bastard child of a bathmat? Geez!). But the basic problem came through, that everyone outside of work treats Faith like a child and she deserves better than that and needs to be allowed to be herself, etc. When Faith goes to the actor's apartment and says she wanted to kiss him I went, oh, brother! And almost didn't watch the rest of it. But I did. It got a little better the second half, but not much. Eh, I gave it a look. Probably won't watch the next episode. From ???@0x00000805 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!news.stealth.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nnxp1.twtelecom.net!news-east.rr.com!chnws02.ne.ipsvc.net!cyclone.ne.ipsvc.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Barry Margolin Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Mail-Copies-To: nobody Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Organization: Genuity, Inc. References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Copies-To: never Message-ID: Lines: 21 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:23:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.61.133.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net 1015082613 24.61.133.115 (Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:23:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:23:33 EST Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594591 Status: O In article <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com>, twc6@aol.com.org (Twc6) wrote: > Yeah, it's the first new NBC sitcom in a long time that I actually WANT to > watch again. There are certain things about it that are a little forced, such > as the group of friends is obivously a Sex in the City thing, though they are > obviously trying to downplay that, which it more obvious -- "okay, it's like > the Sex and the City group, but one is black, one's a straight guy and they > are > all more quirky." Everyone seems to be saying this is a SatC thing, but I think it's just a "TV thing". Ensemble sit-coms have been around for years. Why isn't it a "Seinfeld thing" -- it also had four friends who got together every episode in their regular hangout. The main similarity with SatC is that the primary topic of conversation seems to be sex; on Seinfeld they were just as likely to discuss a quirk of language (e.g. "yadda-yadda"). -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Genuity, Inc., Woburn, MA From ???@0x00000876 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!news.stealth.net!209.251.2.12.MISMATCH!news-xfer2.newshosting.com!not-for-mail From: Chris Bastian Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:07:40 -0500 Message-ID: Organization: Acecape, Inc. Cache-Post-Path: nntp1.acecape.com!unknown@p78-208.acedsl.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Date: 02 Mar 2002 18:07:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: b15bfb59.news.newshosting.com X-Trace: DXC=cdjjcBDO=81\kHT7n0J1m:X`1N4>^k1L3iF6BbIV4YY2LnHEXCOOR@?i3=jA1I75@96d`EYgl61h26[ahYg_, Barry Margolin wrote: > Everyone seems to be saying this is a SatC thing, but I think it's just > a "TV thing". Ensemble sit-coms have been around for years. Why isn't > it a "Seinfeld thing" -- it also had four friends who got together every > episode in their regular hangout. The main similarity with SatC is that > the primary topic of conversation seems to be sex; on Seinfeld they were > just as likely to discuss a quirk of language (e.g. "yadda-yadda"). The distinction is two-fold: first, LOF is a show that focuses on sex and relationships, while Seinfeld was the "show about nothing": yes there was a group of friends, but that was largely incidental to the plots. Second, I would argue that Seinfeld was a "show about funny people" as opposed to LOF which is a "funny show about people": e.g. Seinfeld's characters were more likely to be exagerated personalities, as opposed to fairly normal people-typese with some slightly exagerated quirks. From ???@0x000004B7 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-xfer2.newshosting.com!not-for-mail From: Chris Bastian Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:10:02 -0500 Message-ID: Organization: Acecape, Inc. Cache-Post-Path: nntp1.acecape.com!unknown@p78-208.acedsl.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 3 NNTP-Posting-Date: 02 Mar 2002 18:10:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: b15bfb59.news.newshosting.com X-Trace: DXC==Tl2Cdo_a1@PITniB63c6CX`1N4>^k1LCiF6BbIV4YYBLnHEXCOOR@Oi3=jA1I75@I6d`EYgl61hB6[ahYg_ Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:14:18 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <4f628u4ngq7c91sdg9eaaiuhdtko5jn8lr@4ax.com> Reply-To: inkslinger@FOGsunshine.net References: <20020301201228.15034.00001201@mb-bk.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 15 Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594626 Status: O snostormdansr@aol.com (Snostormdansr) wrote: >Yes, a bad rip-off of SATC/Friends, but I may give it one more try, only >because it doesn't have a laugh track. I appreciate shows not having laugh tracks, but at the same time it throws me off somewhat because I'm used to them. Don't notice the absence at all with Malcolm in the Middle or Bernie Mac, but with others like these two new ones I kept waiting for the canned laughter. I didn't think "Faith" was awful, but I'm not sure if the personable actor character is ongoing cast and he's the one I liked best. Got tired of listening to her pal go on and on about her fling with the energetic younger man. From ???@0x000006C5 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.mv.net!not-for-mail From: mem@geezer.org (Mark E. Mallett) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: 3 Mar 2002 07:18:09 GMT Organization: MV Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <20020301154841.12729.00001221@mb-bj.aol.com> <3c7fe701.51890201@news.edmonton.telusplanet.net> Reply-To: mem@geezer.org NNTP-Posting-Host: iridium.mv.net X-Trace: pyrite.mv.net 1015139889 1638 199.125.85.17 (3 Mar 2002 07:18:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mv.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Mar 2002 07:18:09 GMT Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594774 Status: O In article <3c7fe701.51890201@news.edmonton.telusplanet.net>, David Johnston wrote: > >I watched it because it was half an hour long. Maybe he did, as well. Me too-- But it sure seemed longer than that. I kept thinking: man, when will this be over? OTOH the pilot for Ellen was worse, and subsequent episodes of that were very good. It's hard to judge from a pilot. The main problem for me was that every event in these peoples' lives, no matter how important, was significant to them only in what kind of lame quip they could make out of it. I found that very unsettling and certainly not very interesting or amusing. mm -- Mark E. Mallett | geezer at http://www.geezer.org/ MV Communications, Inc. | http://www.mv.com/ NH Internet Access since 1991 | (603) 629-0000 / FAX: 629-0049 From ???@0x00000661 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.ne.ipsvc.net!cyclone.ne.ipsvc.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Barry Margolin Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Mail-Copies-To: nobody Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Organization: Genuity, Inc. References: <20020301201228.15034.00001201@mb-bk.aol.com> <4f628u4ngq7c91sdg9eaaiuhdtko5jn8lr@4ax.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Copies-To: never Message-ID: Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:10:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.61.133.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net 1015197037 24.61.133.115 (Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:10:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:10:37 EST Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:594864 Status: O In article <4f628u4ngq7c91sdg9eaaiuhdtko5jn8lr@4ax.com>, Maureen Goldman wrote: > I appreciate shows not having laugh tracks, but at the same time it > throws me off somewhat because I'm used to them. Don't notice the > absence at all with Malcolm in the Middle or Bernie Mac, but with > others like these two new ones I kept waiting for the canned laughter. I know what you mean. This isn't an unconventional show like Malcolm or The Job, so it seemed strange that it was lacking this typical element. -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Genuity, Inc., Woburn, MA From ???@0x000004AC Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 05 Mar 2002 14:10:01 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020305091001.01313.00001378@mb-de.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595262 Status: O Chris Bastian cbastian@acdesl.com said: >BTW, does anyone know the name of the song that was playing in the last >5 minutes of the episode? I couldn't find any listing in the closing >credits. it's called "everything's all right" and it's by jude. he's an excellent singer and musician. the song is off his latest album "king of yesterday" which, due to record company nonsense, is pretty uneven. his record before that, though ("no one is really beautiful") is excellent. amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x000006D1 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 24 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 05 Mar 2002 14:15:10 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020305091510.01313.00001380@mb-de.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595267 Status: O barry said: >Everyone seems to be saying this is a SatC thing, but I think it's just >a "TV thing". Ensemble sit-coms have been around for years. but, there are many different kinds of ensemble sitcoms, thus breaking them down and comparing them to each other in different ways. this show didn't have much of a resemblance to "seinfeld" at all. it didn't much look like "cheers" or "night court", either. it's closest relative is "sex and the city". if jenny bicks didn't spend the last couple of years of her life working on that show this would be considered a huge rip off. on paper one might not see the similarities between the two, but the strolls on the street, the lunch, the bar they met in, the baby shower...this was all in the same style as "sex and the city". i was just happy that the interviews with the men turned out to be a part of the casting process at the agency. i was worried that they were bringing back what i found to be the most annoying parts of early "sex..." episodes. amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x0000082C Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 32 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 05 Mar 2002 14:22:31 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020305092231.01313.00001382@mb-de.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595270 Status: O I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) said: >But then, you don't try to do something like this at the expense of a family >member. Unless... (see below). who says that it was at the expense of faith? she was forced into a shower the way a lot of women are forced into a shower. she had to endure sitting there with friends of her mother and sister and with, most likely, a couple of relatives. it was probably painful for her (it would certainly be painful for me) but there's nothing to indicate that there was anything mean spirited in the motivation. mom obviously wants to have the family in the paper (and the times' wedding announcements are big leauge). sister is a bit arrogant in thinking that faith should be like her. but, there was nothing out of the ordinary about that party. there was nothing to indicate that anyone was working with malice. they were throwing faith what they thought any young bride would both want and need...a nice, by the book shower. >Ah, a "socialite". As in, the kind of woman prone to inviting her own >"friends" almost exclusively to the sort of thing that shouldn't include more > >than one or two at the most? you only invite "the best" to a shower. with all due respect, the entire concept of the who, what, when and where of a baby shower seems to be a bit beyond your understanding. amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x000004B5 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf4.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Maureen Goldman Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:44:19 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <7gaa8u0e0orb8o6lg0cf914cobm2qn57bp@4ax.com> Reply-To: inkslinger@FOGsunshine.net References: <20020305091510.01313.00001380@mb-de.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 7 Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595394 Status: N >on paper one might not see the similarities between the two, but the strolls on >the street, the lunch, the bar they met in, the baby shower...this was all in >the same style as "sex and the city". T'was a bridal shower. From ???@0x000005C0 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!news.he.net!rn.area.com!not-for-mail From: mattack@vax.hanford.org Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: 5 Mar 2002 19:00:59 -0800 Organization: Area Systems Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vax.hanford.org X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test62 (21 February 1998) Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595466 Status: O In article <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com>, Twc6 wrote: >The shocking thing is that the actor playing the new romantic interest is >actually interesting as an actor! Can't believe it! Ken Marino is "the new guy", right? i.e. I checked the names on imdb, and don't remember the character names. From list listed credits, it doesn't seem like he's been in anything I watched regularly (except for guest spots), but he looks REALLY familiar. I think he looks incredibly like someone on one of the "Real World" seasons, I just can't think of who. (I also just watched "A Town without Christmas", yes kind of late huh.. and the main guy in that seemed familiar but can't think of what I've seen him in.) -- mattack@area.com From ???@0x000006AC Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!sapphire.mtt.net!News.Dal.Ca!torn!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lines: 28 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: amysa@aol.comasutra (AMYSA) Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Date: 06 Mar 2002 03:44:10 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Message-ID: <20020305224410.29908.00001486@mb-fa.aol.com> Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595473 Status: N mattack@vax.hanford.org said: >Ken Marino is "the new guy", right? i.e. I checked the names on imdb, >and don't remember the character names. ken marino is the male friend in the foursome. brad rowe plays the new love interest. >From list listed credits, it doesn't seem like he's been in anything I >watched regularly (except for guest spots), but he looks REALLY familiar. check brad's listings and you'll probably find something you know him from. he was jimmy's nephew on a handful of "newsradio" episodes. that was the first time i noticed him. after that he seemed to pop up everywhere. > (I also just watched "A Town without Christmas", >yes kind of late huh.. and the main guy in that seemed familiar but >can't think of what I've seen him in.) was that the one with patricia heaton? if so, the main guy in that was one of the doctors on "la doctors". i've seen him in many things, but that's the show i always instantly associate him with. of course, i can't even think of his name right now... amy chas: "is it dark?" richie: "of course it's dark...it's a suicide note." From ???@0x00000C7B Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!sympatico Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv From: I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020305092231.01313.00001382@mb-de.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 51 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:29:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.8.200 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1015388910 142.177.8.200 (Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:28:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:28:30 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595484 Status: N AMYSA wrote: >>But then, you don't try to do something like this at the expense of a family >>member. Unless... (see below). > >who says that it was at the expense of faith? she was forced into a shower the >way a lot of women are forced into a shower. Which doesn't make it right. Nor does it make entertaining television programming. I suppose if you're subjected to it regularly, it'd be a different matter. Downright depressing, though. >she had to endure sitting there >with friends of her mother and sister and with, most likely, a couple of >relatives. it was probably painful for her (it would certainly be painful for >me) but there's nothing to indicate that there was anything mean spirited in >the motivation. The mother's gift choice was. Anything backed with the sentiment "The bastard child of a bathmat." is not meant in a good way. >mom obviously wants to have the family in the paper (and the >times' wedding announcements are big leauge). Even if it means Faith getting married to someone she no longer cares for? Again, it might make good comedy fodder if one enjoys that sort of thing, but if one doesn't it "better to lose a year of your life than admit a mistake" is off-putting. >sister is a bit arrogant in >thinking that faith should be like her. but, there was nothing out of the >ordinary about that party. there was nothing to indicate that anyone was >working with malice. they were throwing faith what they thought any young bride >would both want and need...a nice, by the book shower. >with all due respect, the entire concept of the who, what, when and where of a >baby shower seems to be a bit beyond your understanding. If you say so. But my understanding of it - and I know enough women who have been to bridal showers - was that you threw a party with a bit of gift-giving and maybe some other semiorganized entertainment. If everyone had a good time and possibly got an alcohol buzz going, you had a success. Certainly, I've heard of ones like the show demonstrated - sans confessions of trysts, natch - but as soon as someone insults someone else's taste in clothing/food/etc., they usually get chalked up as "bad" ones. Len -- Pointless sig file. http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail. End pointless sig file. From ???@0x000007BF Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf3.bellglobal.com!news.stealth.net!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeeds-atl2!atlpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!c44934e4!not-for-mail From: "Kim M" Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv References: <20020301081744.23799.00001022@mb-fr.aol.com> <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com> Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: <9Bjh8.347697$n73.11315301@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 02:31:17 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp. http://corp.webusenet.com - ReInventing the UseNet Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 01:33:56 -0600 Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595530 Status: N wrote in message news:a640pb$1fc$1@vax.hanford.org... > In article <20020301122352.17491.00001444@mb-cr.aol.com>, > Twc6 wrote: > >The shocking thing is that the actor playing the new romantic interest is > >actually interesting as an actor! Can't believe it! > > Ken Marino is "the new guy", right? i.e. I checked the names on imdb, > and don't remember the character names. > > From list listed credits, it doesn't seem like he's been in anything I > watched regularly (except for guest spots), but he looks REALLY familiar. > > I think he looks incredibly like someone on one of the "Real World" seasons, > I just can't think of who. He was never on the Real World, but he was on MTV. He was on The State (which ought to be airing somewhere right now - funny stuff!). Maybe that's what you're thinking of.... Kim From ???@0x0000051D Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!sapphire.mtt.net!News.Dal.Ca!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!rn.area.com!not-for-mail From: mattack@vax.hanford.org Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith Date: 6 Mar 2002 15:20:07 -0800 Organization: Area Systems Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vax.hanford.org X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test62 (21 February 1998) Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595727 Status: O In article <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com>, Dominik500 wrote: >Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >there of) Any other comments? Though this is absolutely irrelevant about my opinion of the show, the main actress looks a lot better on the show than she did on the Tonight Show I was FFing through. I didn't even recognize her until they showed the clip. (Amazing, since I remember thinking "wow, she's beautiful" while watching the show.) -- mattack@area.com From ???@0x00000702 Thu Mar 07 00:02:01 2002 Path: news20.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!sympatico Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv From: I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len P.) Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith References: <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 24 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:59:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.8.220 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1015459093 142.177.8.220 (Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:13 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: nf1.bellglobal.com rec.arts.tv:595738 Status: N mattack wrote: >In article <20020301015133.15509.00000665@mb-fi.aol.com>, >Dominik500 wrote: >>Mind numbingly bad. Even worse the Inside Schwartz. Smarmy and unlikeable >>characters, REALLY REALLY lame jokes, and an overall unpleasant plot (or lack >>there of) Any other comments? > >Though this is absolutely irrelevant about my opinion of the show, the >main actress looks a lot better on the show than she did on the Tonight Show >I was FFing through. I didn't even recognize her until they showed the >clip. (Amazing, since I remember thinking "wow, she's beautiful" while >watching the show.) NBC being nigh impossible to get here without committing grievous acts involving dead chickens, I missed it. I don't suppose anyone here was bored enough to grab a screencap or two? I'm mildly curious. Len -- Pointless sig file. http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail. End pointless sig file.